What if the Gods are real but Religion is not?

Really excellent question and feel free to keep typing on it, I will review it more carefully and get back to you on it hopefully, in the meantime I look forward to others responses regarding this and also rather than waiting for all that you can continue onto making other threads with other great ideas and things on your mind.

I know already before even a careful reading my agenda, which could be considered entirely closed minded and closed to any possibility or suggestion of alternatives so I will state those dogmatic things here first:

All my threads point to one set of ideas and themes, including the links I post.

The idea is that there is only one power which generates and runs through everything, communicating to itself by means of information and ideas it makes up almost like dreams. We are experiences and it is viewing us as we view ourselves, through our sights, sounds, feelings which are all open information, it is what generated these things we are personally experiencing and on a daily basis I seem to witness its ease at speaking and openly manipulating information, time, history, and whatever it wants to because it is all now.

Everything is its language and it speaks literally through every nuance of experience.

It controls what we experience and how we interpret and think of our experiences too. It sends messengers, images, ideas, preferences, some of these it seems to repeat attached to certain ideas or themes, such as the Raven, the Serpent, the Canine, the Fox, the Demon, the Angels.

It can generate any of these things and control them, and much of the names of Angels and demons are just references to aspects of the same power, as are all the variety of Gods which refer to parts of Nature, Concepts, or other things (see the Amun thread or any others for more on this).

We, even we, who are just people and animals are also used as messages and words and speakers representing various things to each other and ourselves and ultimately bringing about the overall statements and themes it deliberately and consciously speaks and formulates and organizes.

The religions are also representing this but there is a message in the obvious hypocrisy and folly which becomes dominant in each as the people end up turning away from the truth. They do not do this of their own accord, but are turned into examples of wrong, because there is only One Truth, which is the Power itself, and those who observe it carefully will realize, that from logic, from feelings, from any approach, taken far enough, it leads to the same answers, practices, theology, and philosophy of One and Zero and One Alone.

We are then guided and given various helpers, people, animals, spouses, children, things we see in dreams, strange encounters, all being ultimately means to demonstrate and bring about certain messages and communications in a world haunted by divination and oracular events, a world of communication made up only of living words at every level and an undrying inkwell.

Take nothing for granted and use what you can. All things say one thing, but in different ways, and each refers to the one power, to us, to its actions and our actions, its status and our status.

All the religions are right if applied carefully to this framework or understanding, they are right even if they are reversed into their opposite versions or mirror versions or antithesis, and all things can become your tools, all paths your walkways, all languages and ideas to benefit you in learning and teaching and living well and enjoying and not having to choose.

You can then harness Christianity and Christian language knowing the One Power, or fictional things like Tolkien or Warhammer which each contain messages even on accident or while opposing certain things. You can be a Muslim freely and always, regardless of silly people who make it about beards or fashion sense or lack thereof.

Buddhist, Hindu, Jain, Zoroastrian, Satanist, Luciferian, Gnostic, acknowledging what is all true and how it is all true, bypassing the difficulties or mutual exclusions.

Then, you will meet the One you were always speaking with, and if you have lived like me, it has even in insult, only ever praised and spoken the truth regarding the One Power, a blameless life of surrender to the Greatest and denial of myself, of all of us, acknowledging only One speaker, One actor, One agent, and using whatever I can to remind myself and inform all of us who are in my experience when I can through all I say and do and how I say it and do it.
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Yet that doesn’t mean all is good or right or that all that people say or do is wise or just, sometimes people are made to be the example of the very wrong and dangerously evil and stupid, stemming from the same Evil One who brought them about and supported them for a while:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/jan/21/carthaginians-sacrificed-own-children-study
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http://www.kemet.org/names-of-netjer

Wonderful points which should be very helpful and are worth more discussion probably, such as what elements or aspects one does value and why, and why they should or should not, for example like “original sources” being over-valued due to their age or their primacy through being first or eldest.

In my case, I wanted to represent the position of an individual with their mind made up, an agenda, and how that would prejudice readings or can help predict and calculate results. The reason I took an unusual seeming position like that and posted what I did was to demonstrate or imply to those who might give it thought how many people even have subconciously made their minds up about many things, which ends up acting as a filter which organizes and interprets any sort of material in a certain way, even if they don’t see that it is happening or acknowledge those things, making it all the more subtle, pervasive, and dangerous.

To try to bring out and expose the many, often-times truly or almost necessarily illogical things we have actually decided upon or desire or feel are true, is to make it more clear overall why certain information is being interpreted in certain ways.

There is lots of suppressive shaming involved in the practice of exposing and facing these realities or likelihoods. One such example might be an unwillingness to share or admit to actual prejudices or even cultural racism or stereotypes that will then act covertly on choices. In the hope of being strictly politically correct or to avoid shaming, one becomes hidden even from themselves by their inability to try to see what they really might think, what it looks like and says and why, and if they want to really be free from it, like the admission policy in Alchoholics Anonymous.

So without even reading the wonderful OP, I know that I am going to think it is wonderful and that it is wonderful, what and how I will accept the information and what aspects I would reject and why. This is because I know myself, and like a great deal of people, I am extremely stiff when it comes to the bones of the framework and unwilling to adjust for anything, making me more akin to a fanatic than a genuinely flexible learner who can change their position. All information becomes about theft, use, and re-packaging and all I learn or take from anything is more of what I may be able to use or more words or approaches or information about psychology or trends or tendencies to help me in my violent and blind mission which has one or two major flaws which I will discuss in another thread.

This isn’t just me though, it seems to be under everyones skin. I’ve seen it.

Someone who has secretly decided the Church or mankind is wholly untrustworthy will interpret news a certain way, a certain bias and conversion and addition will be present because (well humans can’t be trusted and would do wrong) would follow along at the secret end of all sentences. It may be true or not, but that isn’t the focus, the point is our secret sentences which change the meanings of all things.

In this way, we practically know everything ahead of time because our secret sentences when known to us can help us predict and calculate the results without even trying much (If wikipedia says it, it is true and usable, but if it says any of these things, it is human interference that is twisting the article) so we already know, we know what we are going to do and say and why much of the time but never even think about it or acknowledge such things.

To know thyself is to know all there is to know at a time.
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That is where emptiness comes in, which is never mastered by anyone who won’t face their realities or layers or secret sentences. It doesn’t even require abolishing them. Knowing is enough to dispel these sorts of spirits. Finally, emptiness becomes easy, because it accepts phenomena without question as phenomena, and becomes free from all hows or whys. It is present, and when distinctions are abolished, it becomes one or zero or one, it is and that is all concern without theories of activity, worries of result, and all the stresdors which accompany a mind which moves as compared to a resting active presence without interpretations or answers. An answer is always a sword, a cutting device, something which pierces and splits. Nothing wrong with that, its just what an answer does or seeks to do.
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I read the article and it was a piece of art. Please express more and freely, you are a fantastic writer and expresser of your ideas and feelings.

That was really great.

It appears to me that when technologybis not available, people still try to simulate technologies and behave almost as if they are present. Almost like having ghost cellphones before the cellphones were actually put in or materialized, but seeking the results from them and testifying regarding their success as well.

What you have experienced, which you can freely discuss here and are unlikely to be met with ridicule, is to me far more relevant and real than the kinds of substitutes or representations people make, like cellphones.

That is to say, the cellphone is only a manifestation of Communication, Communication is what is real and effective about it, the Cellphone is just one form or mask over Communication which is a more abstract and non-substantial seeming concept which seems to manifest in a variety of ways.

There is no God depending on what people imagine or refer to. There is what Is though, there is Force, Result, Apparent Motion, Apparent Change. What is Undeniable should be God, and nothing else. What is not God is what is not Power or Acting.
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For your bravery and overcoming any hesitations about posting or concerns of what we might like, you received my first ever rating on this website and my first ever “like” to a post to a regular member!

Please write more. Your thoughts and feelings freely while this website is rather safe, pleasant, and young.
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Religion sometimes try to save itself by latching on to what appears living, like Science appears today. What runs anything is human attention and interest. When humans become bored with science, they will find something else to amuse themselves with, and religion might then try to latch itself to that for a while.

We also live by latching on, even at the earliest stages of development, and as soon as we stop we find ourselves falling back where we came from, further into the unexpressed and finally to the inexpressable. That is what never dies because it remains unborn, yet all that is born comes from it and goes back to it, even moment to moment, besides in every other way.

What we seek, masked by a hard plastic life, is death, and death again. Tear off the face of anything, and behind all life is the terror from which life erupts to flee, then ever seeks by other names. Death is the end and the answer to all questions, the conclusion of any course of inquiry and any exploration.

We live by Death in every sense, even by killing and seeing death in order to live. Just like religion.

Man is religion and the God of man is the Power of Death. What man produces is Death and what man is given in return is Death. There is no other pursuit than this in all the worlds and no other interest that lasts. Death is the highest ideal and the most dissapointing of realities, the Truth itself which reveals and is revealed by its presence and activity and awareness of it.
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http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Many-Faced_God
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https://www.cla.purdue.edu/english/theory/psychoanalysis/definitions/deathdrive.html
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http://www.fullbooks.com/MAN-AND-SUPERMAN4.html
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THE DEVIL. Don Juan: shall I be frank with you?

DON JUAN. Were you not so before?

THE DEVIL. As far as I went, yes. But I will now go further, and
confess to you that men get tired of everything, of heaven no
less than of hell; and that all history is nothing but a record
of the oscillations of the world between these two extremes. An
epoch is but a swing of the pendulum; and each generation thinks
the world is progressing because it is always moving. But when
you are as old as I am; when you have a thousand times wearied of
heaven, like myself and the Commander, and a thousand times
wearied of hell, as you are wearied now, you will no longer
imagine that every swing from heaven to hell is an emancipation,
every swing from hell to heaven an evolution. Where you now see
reform, progress, fulfilment of upward tendency, continual ascent
by Man on the stepping stones of his dead selves to higher
things, you will see nothing but an infinite comedy of illusion.
You will discover the profound truth of the saying of my friend
Koheleth, that there is nothing new under the sun. Vanitas
vanitatum–

DON JUAN. [out of all patience] By Heaven, this is worse than
your cant about love and beauty. Clever dolt that you are, is a
man no better than a worm, or a dog than a wolf, because he gets
tired of everything? Shall he give up eating because he destroys
his appetite in the act of gratifying it? Is a field idle when it
is fallow? Can the Commander expend his hellish energy here
without accumulating heavenly energy for his next term of
blessedness? Granted that the great Life Force has hit on the
device of the clockmaker’s pendulum, and uses the earth for its
bob; that the history of each oscillation, which seems so novel
to us the actors, is but the history of the last oscillation
repeated; nay more, that in the unthinkable infinitude of time
the sun throws off the earth and catches it again a thousand
times as a circus rider throws up a ball, and that the total
of all our epochs is but the moment between the toss and the
catch, has the colossal mechanism no purpose?

THE DEVIL. None, my friend. You think, because you have a
purpose, Nature must have one. You might as well expect it to
have fingers and toes because you have them.

DON JUAN. But I should not have them if they served no purpose.
And I, my friend, am as much a part of Nature as my own finger is
a part of me. If my finger is the organ by which I grasp the
sword and the mandoline, my brain is the organ by which Nature
strives to understand itself. My dog’s brain serves only my dog’s
purposes; but my brain labors at a knowledge which does nothing
for me personally but make my body bitter to me and my decay and
death a calamity. Were I not possessed with a purpose beyond my
own I had better be a ploughman than a philosopher; for the
ploughman lives as long as the philosopher, eats more, sleeps
better, and rejoices in the wife of his bosom with less
misgiving. This is because the philosopher is in the grip of the
Life Force. This Life Force says to him “I have done a thousand
wonderful things unconsciously by merely willing to live and
following the line of least resistance: now I want to know myself
and my destination, and choose my path; so I have made a special
brain–a philosopher’s brain–to grasp this knowledge for me as
the husbandman’s hand grasps the plough for me. “And this” says
the Life Force to the philosopher “must thou strive to do for me
until thou diest, when I will make another brain and another
philosopher to carry on the work.”

THE DEVIL. What is the use of knowing?

DON JUAN. Why, to be able to choose the line of greatest
advantage instead of yielding in the direction of the least
resistance. Does a ship sail to its destination no better than a
log drifts nowhither? The philosopher is Nature’s pilot. And
there you have our difference: to be in hell is to drift: to be
in heaven is to steer.

THE DEVIL. On the rocks, most likely.

DON JUAN. Pooh! which ship goes oftenest on the rocks or to the
bottom–the drifting ship or the ship with a pilot on board?

THE DEVIL. Well, well, go your way, Senor Don Juan. I prefer to
be my own master and not the tool of any blundering universal
force. I know that beauty is good to look at; that music is good
to hear; that love is good to feel; and that they are all good to
think about and talk about. I know that to be well exercised in
these sensations, emotions, and studies is to be a refined and
cultivated being. Whatever they may say of me in churches on
earth, I know that it is universally admitted in good society
that the prince of Darkness is a gentleman; and that is enough
for me. As to your Life Force, which you think irresistible, it
is the most resistible thing in the world for a person of any
character. But if you are naturally vulgar and credulous, as all
reformers are, it will thrust you first into religion, where you
will sprinkle water on babies to save their souls from me; then
it will drive you from religion into science, where you will
snatch the babies from the water sprinkling and inoculate them
with disease to save them from catching it accidentally; then you
will take to politics, where you will become the catspaw of
corrupt functionaries and the henchman of ambitious humbugs; and
the end will be despair and decrepitude, broken nerve and
shattered hopes, vain regrets for that worst and silliest of
wastes and sacrifices, the waste and sacrifice of the power of
enjoyment: in a word, the punishment of the fool who pursues the
better before he has secured the good.

DON JUAN. But at least I shall not be bored. The service of the
Life Force has that advantage, at all events. So fare you well,
Senor Satan.

THE DEVIL. [amiably] Fare you well, Don Juan. I shall often think
of our interesting chats about things in general. I wish you
every happiness: Heaven, as I said before, suits some people. But
if you should change your mind, do not forget that the gates are
always open here to the repentant prodigal. If you feel at any
time that warmth of heart, sincere unforced affection, innocent
enjoyment, and warm, breathing, palpitating reality–

DON JUAN. Why not say flesh and blood at once, though we have
left those two greasy commonplaces behind us?

THE DEVIL. [angrily] You throw my friendly farewell back in my
teeth, then, Don Juan?

DON JUAN. By no means. But though there is much to be learnt from
a cynical devil, I really cannot stand a sentimental one. Senor
Commander: you know the way to the frontier of hell and heaven.
Be good enough to direct me.

THE STATUE. Oh, the frontier is only the difference between two
ways of looking at things. Any road will take you across it if
you really want to get there.

DON JUAN. Good. [saluting Dona Ana] Senora: your servant.

ANA. But I am going with you.

DON JUAN. I can find my own way to heaven, Ana; but I cannot find
yours [he vanishes].

ANA. How annoying!

THE STATUE. [calling after him] Bon voyage, Juan! [He wafts a
final blast of his great rolling chords after him as a parting
salute. A faint echo of the first ghostly melody comes back in
acknowledgment]. Ah! there he goes. [Puffing a long breath out
through his lips] Whew! How he does talk! They’ll never stand it
in heaven.

THE DEVIL. [gloomily] His going is a political defeat. I cannot
keep these Life Worshippers: they all go. This is the greatest
loss I have had since that Dutch painter went–a fellow who would
paint a hag of 70 with as much enjoyment as a Venus of 20.

THE STATUE. I remember: he came to heaven. Rembrandt.

THE DEVIL. Ay, Rembrandt. There a something unnatural about these
fellows. Do not listen to their gospel, Senor Commander: it is
dangerous. Beware of the pursuit of the Superhuman: it leads to
an indiscriminate contempt for the Human. To a man, horses and
dogs and cats are mere species, outside the moral world. Well, to
the Superman, men and women are a mere species too, also outside
the moral world. This Don Juan was kind to women and courteous to
men as your daughter here was kind to her pet cats and dogs; but
such kindness is a denial of the exclusively human character of
the soul.

THE STATUE. And who the deuce is the Superman?

THE DEVIL. Oh, the latest fashion among the Life Force fanatics.
Did you not meet in Heaven, among the new arrivals, that German
Polish madman–what was his name? Nietzsche?

THE STATUE. Never heard of him.

THE DEVIL. Well, he came here first, before he recovered his
wits. I had some hopes of him; but he was a confirmed Life Force
worshipper. It was he who raked up the Superman, who is as old as
Prometheus; and the 20th century will run after this newest of
the old crazes when it gets tired of the world, the flesh, and
your humble servant.

THE STATUE. Superman is a good cry; and a good cry is half the
battle. I should like to see this Nietzsche.

THE DEVIL. Unfortunately he met Wagner here, and had a quarrel
with him.

THE STATUE. Quite right, too. Mozart for me!

THE DEVIL. Oh, it was not about music. Wagner once drifted into
Life Force worship, and invented a Superman called Siegfried. But
he came to his senses afterwards. So when they met here,
Nietzsche denounced him as a renegade; and Wagner wrote a pamphlet
to prove that Nietzsche was a Jew; and it ended in Nietzsche’s
going to heaven in a huff. And a good riddance too. And now, my
friend, let us hasten to my palace and celebrate your arrival with
a grand musical service.

THE STATUE. With pleasure: you’re most kind.

THE DEVIL. This way, Commander. We go down the old trap [he
places himself on the grave trap].

THE STATUE. Good. [Reflectively] All the same, the Superman is a
fine conception. There is something statuesque about it. [He
places himself on the grave trap beside The Devil. It begins to
descend slowly. Red glow from the abyss]. Ah, this reminds me of
old times.

THE DEVIL. And me also.

ANA. Stop! [The trap stops].

THE DEVIL. You, Senora, cannot come this way. You will have an
apotheosis. But you will be at the palace before us.

ANA. That is not what I stopped you for. Tell me where can I find
the Superman?

THE DEVIL. He is not yet created, Senora.

THE STATUE. And never will be, probably. Let us proceed: the red
fire will make me sneeze. [They descend].

ANA. Not yet created! Then my work is not yet done. [Crossing
herself devoutly] I believe in the Life to Come. [Crying to the
universe] A father–a father for the Superman!

She vanishes into the void; and again there is nothing: all
existence seems suspended infinitely. Then, vaguely, there is a
live human voice crying somewhere. One sees, with a shock, a
mountain peak showing faintly against a lighter background. The
sky has returned from afar; and we suddenly remember where we
were. The cry becomes distinct and urgent: it says Automobile,
Automobile. The complete reality comes back with a rush: in a
moment it is full morning in the Sierra; and the brigands are
scrambling to their feet and making for the road as the goatherd
runs down from the hill, warning them of the approach of another
motor.

Still a hot one!

This is still relevant.

Still a hot one!

Worth revisiting.