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kFoyauextlH.
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21/02/2017 at 21:51 #17776
This is some text I found on my PC. It was answering a video that had a guy I know called Nick, asking an ‘astrologer’ about astrology.
Hi Nick,
Here are the questions you asked in the interview and my responses. I will attempt to keep them as simple and as short as possible.
As regards the first points of “bettering oneself” and astrology being about “you and your sense of self”, that is pretty much a decent perspective to take with it and why it is worth taking a look into. The aim of a reading is to find positive affirmations about an individual.
1. Are there 12 houses and signs/are they the same thing?
The signs and houses are different. The signs are 30 degree divisions of the ecliptic in space(the ecliptic is the path of the Sun), which is an invisible horizon in space, kind of like an equator. The houses represent the relation between the ecliptic and the equator down on Earth. The roots of this type of astrology come from Hellenistic, Egyptian, Babylonian and Sumerian culture in the West.
We can gather a basic understanding of the horoscope from spherical astronomy.
The houses are not strictly 30 degrees and can vary in size, sometimes containing up to four signs of the Zodiac within them, this is due to the rotation of the Earth on its axis (tilt).
We could picture a gyroscopic movement system for the signs in relation to the houses and the equator, Signs pass through houses depending on the axis of the Earth and the time of year and day. It is from these movements that we obtain the four most important angles of the chart – the ascendant, the immum coeli, the descendant and the mid-heaven.
Whatever sign is on the cusp of each house will be the ruler of that house in astrological interpretation, the most important of which is the ascendant, as the ascendant represents the sign that rises in the East at the exact time we are born from the perspective on the Earth that we occupy at that moment, this is why it is sometimes referred to as the “rising sign”.
The perspective of the natal chart is that of looking due South, the mid-heaven is always due south, with the East to our left and the West to our right. The immum coeli which is directly opposite the mid-heaven, is referred to as the North. The best way to picture what a chart actually is looking at, is if we imagine that the Earth is rotated so that the area of the Earth that we were born in is directly on the North pole, so that no matter which way you face, you will always be looking due south. The North and its meaning is important to understand in astrology, it represents the “higher self” although I prefer to use the term “authentic self”. Understanding the Northern meaning and definition, symbolism etc, is paramount as it will help us to unlock the nodes of the Moon, a North one and a South one, but we can get to that another time, I don’t want to overload you.
In summary, the houses and signs are relative to time and space, the relation between the ecliptic in the sky and the equator down on Earth. The philosophy of Hermeticism states “ as above, so below”, this is what it is referring to. I have some disputes with this type of philosophy, especially its relationship with Gnosticism and Plato. I can go into that another time.
It has nothing to do with the constellations, they have moved into sections of the sky that are less or more than 30 degrees and the signs and houses are not the same as the constellations.
2. As constellations move or stars within them burn out and general cosmic flux occurs, does that change and affect astrology?
This is the scientific criticism of astrology, that the stars the ancients pointed to are not in the same places or that they no longer exist, therefore if the stars have an effect via emanation, it therefore emanates from nothing. Flux does occur and stars do move, stars go super nova and burn out. The answer to this question is in the first answer, it is not the constellations that we are pointing to, it is the signs and the houses, these are completely intangible measurements in the sky.
The first 30 degrees of a horoscope, which is the first 30 degrees that is directly to our left in the East below us on the 21st of March each year, which is the spring equinox at 6 am in the morning, is the first house and the sign of Aries, it will always be that sign and house at that time of year and day when the equinoxes of the Zodiac signs and houses match up together. It is not the stars, it is the angle of the ecliptic in relation to the equator divided up into 12 sections that we are pointing to.
As regards “predictive natures”, I would like to expand on what I define astrology to be. I agree with the Oxford dictionary on the definition of astrology – “the study of the movements and relative positions of celestial bodies interpreted as having an influence on human affairs and the natural world “ – I will also refer back to what we have opened the idea of astrology to be, to find positive affirmations about the individual, which gives us a non-predictive system and more of a method of defining the means of our fate, rather than a forecast that indicates the ends, the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. This is where we must use philosophy to decide what we see the world as. Do we see it as being entirely determined, or is there autonomy of will that is subject to change? Is there a prior purpose to life, or does the meaning come after the fact? These are all the essential philosophies that require devout intellectual contemplation if we are to take astrology seriously/
Astrology is just like another language, it has symbols that we use to point out an example, therefore it is an ostensive definition and since we have altered the way it used from predicting agricultural actions to predicting the outcomes of a kingdom and its rulers, sovereigns and noble men, which had a very limited amount of possibilities and the mystics were often bribed by politicians to set battles and corruptions in motion, to out Jungian view of astrology today, we can see how astrology has stood the test of time and is capable of adapting to new ideas and collective memory. It is like an eternal storage device of history and collective memory.
It just depends what examples you are pointing out using the medium of astrology, it’s an inert system on its own, it requires a meaning, a context, subject and emphasis to work.
We could say that it is hardly ontological (as in “what is”) and more of a theory of what is, making it epistemological. This is where I have disputes with Gnosticism, Hermeticism and Platonism, the theory is often confused with the object it is pointing to (which is usually not really an object but a concept that has been turned into a world or God of some kind), as this type of ideal often becomes overly rationalistic, therefore the means are confused with the ends, the object of absolute truth recedes at each effort to reach it and we can infinitely regress towards a source that does not tangibly exist. I will get into these criticism another time however, but it’s important to “not watch the finger” when pointing.
I feel it is imperative to ask where meaning comes from, astrology is great way to open up this question and find the balance between criticism and allowance to understand and accept, we need to suspend disbelief of course, but we also don’t want to make too many assumptions that have no basis in our own personal knowledge, we should start from the ground up, rather than looking out mindlessly into the stars for an ideal state of being that is absolute and fixed. Loss of humility is common in mysticism on this basis alone.
Using terms like energy can become tautological (true as it is repeated more than once and is everything therefore nothing at the same time), I believe that collective memory is created by man after the fact and is placed into language which can support itself without reference.
3. What are the different types of astrology?
There are two main types of astrology that I practice – Draconic, Placidus and Astropsychology as the method for interpretation, however I have evolved this into “Existential Astrology”, which is combining the theme of existentialism ( a philosophical theme that addresses the ontology of the human existence, the purpose of it and values, drives, emotions, flux and will among other themes.)
There are various types that are subtypes, like composite charts, where we take two charts and read them as one, synastry, which is the chart used for relationships, progression astrology and various other techniques like interceptions of signs and houses.
In the East there is the Vedic tradtion, although there are many others like 13 sign astrology too.
I will not go into details here as the questions was more of a “make a list” type question. If you would like to know more about these, please ask and I will go into them in another video or essay.
4. Astrology forecasts are like weather forecasts and are 50% wrong all of the time.
I take it that you are referring to mundane astrology, which is an astrological practice that allegedly “predicts” events in politics or general collective energies. This is a little trickier, the only mundane astrologers that I have any time for are those who have been making notes of relative eventualities and event relationships over a period of 20 years or more, that is the only way to offer a forecast that is worth anything in my opinion, but it is not an exact science, there are so many different outcomes happening across the world in relative cultures that we could say astrology is responsible for anything. I prefer to be much more specific and focus on individuals.
The maturity of a human is around the age of 30, this is the end of childhood and the start of being a responsible adult, it is also an anxious time when we feel we need to “do it now or never do it”, we put ourselves to the test and decide our own values and act upon our desires and drives. It so happens that Saturn returns to the exact point where it was on your natal chart around this time and so from this occurrence, we attribute Saturn to this phase of profound liberating change.
On the collective level, the world is just too vast to be specific with mundane astrology, predictions in medieval times were in very limited domains, there were only so many things that could happen to you, where as our complexity has far surpassed this “science”, which I should indicate here means “knowledge” and “gnosis” means “Science of things divine”.
I don’t agree with a prescriptive interpretation of astrology or a determined outlook as it does not focus on individual will, I prefer to be specific and only interpret individual charts, I don’t predict either, I create a “portrait” of that person. I often ask for the native of the chart to provide information about their life and then I place that information onto the chart, this way I can study it accurately with actual, rather than idealist events and occurrences, it is through this concrete data collection that I have been able to find similarities between aspects. I am humble however and can’t give you an answer as to why similar aspects often have similarities to each other in different charts in the way they manifest in the actual, I just can say that they do, I will not say it is an “energy” or “force” that is determining this, we will get to this in another question I heard.
I wouldn’t call it a science, I would call it a methodical language to describe the processes of human existence, it’s an art form, hence why I call my readings “portraits”.
We have to be careful when people claim to have knowledge of things that haven’t happened yet, they can become overly moral with lots of “should, ought and should nots”, I don’t see astrology as showing anything in the future or the past, I see it is showing what is always present in the now, as that is all we can say a human is, a being that experiences now with what they have as they are.
5. What happens when we get incorrect predictions, although we are sure that astrology is accurate?
We do of course have to have some common sense, astrology is describing a human being, therefore it contains all of things a human being has, mainly the way a human interacts with other humans, this includes the identity, values, drives, emotions, agency, intellect, will, creativity, criticism, service, the ability to relate, to fulfil dreams and desires, to make aims and to experience the world, to interact on the social level, get jobs, education, experiences, travelling, friendships, involvement, self belief, faith, hope and allowance or acceptance, so of course it will relate to anyone. A true astrologer will only be able to make assessments that are true or as true as possible if they have lots of experience, have made lots of notes, discussed it a lot and read volumes of astrological literature, it does not just come overnight from a source outside of the material existence.
We can often get lost in “what we want to hear” instead of “what we are”, astrology can often mislead people into thinking they have a preordained purpose and that they are special in such a way that they are superior, this is what many will want to hear in predictions.
The only resolve is revaluation and to ask what we want ourselves, this is why I ask for information from the native of the chart as it is the subjectivity of the individual that we are looking for, how they can express their own will as best as they can.
6. Is astrology too general? Can this chart be anyones?
Astrology will tell you nothing new about yourself, I see it as a gateway to begin questioning yourself, to develop your curiosity, this is a life long pursuit, it requires care and honesty. Many will entertain it and stop here, as they want quick answers and certainty.
This is why I introduce philosophy into the astrological interpretation, I often talk a lot about Friedrich Nietzsche who has some great works that are similar to Daoism and Buddhism, of which these other ideas and concepts are what astrology never really gets to on its own, as it is merely pointing as a methodical language.
Astrology does not support itself, it can be everything, therefore it is nothing at the same time, this is the irony and paradox that has no definitive answer, it is a philosophical question that is always present in many religions and spiritual ideas.
I believe it is more beneficial to say “philosophy happens after the fact”, rather than to look at the being we are describing in the chart as a pre-existing entity. Start with “what is”, rather than “what if”.
7. Differences in Western and Eastern traditions?
This is a tricky subject, sometimes we can interchange with opinions and beliefs depending on the astrologer of the type of astrology they use. It all comes down to world views. Do we believe in other worlds having influence, is it all conceptual, abstract, are we looking at previous lives, or are we looking to achieve a goal of some kind? These are the many issues at play here.
East and West are always very different in the way they think intelletually, the West has a view of substance of all things and is very rationalist, ideal and absolute in its methods, whereas the East is more focused on practices, some ascetic, some moralist, but mostly they are more inclined to process, karma and other-worldly and other life influences. As I said before, astrology is not a self supporting language and is ostensive in definition, it just depends on what you claim to be pointing at.
8. What if two people have the same chart?
This is the question that inspired me to answer you, a natal chart is like a finger print, each one is unique. However when we have two charts that are the same, it doesn’t mean they will turn out the same.
We have to think in terms of relativity. Two people may well have the same chart, but not the same upbringing, one may be a King, the other a Hippie, therefore the manifestation of the aspects is interpreted to accommodate those relative outcomes, we are all individuals, but this is not to say that “manifest” means there is an original idea, that would just be our self-supporting language confusing the issue, all we can say is that the charts are the same, but the people are not. The astrologer and indeed all of astrology is about finding a medium to communicate and experience people of different cultures. To look at each other equally and with empathy by describing ourselves as the cosmos is a humbling experience, this is where we upload our collective memory, by using astrology to point out to the stars and say that they are like parts of us, like a metaphor, allegory or concept.
We have to take into account perspective – what can we see? What do others see?
They may well have similar traits, again I can’t say that they would, but they would not be the same person entirely in all probability due to their experience of the world.
9. There are so many people who claim to be astrologers, how do you recognise a “real” astrologer?
It all depends on how interested the audience of that astrologer is, if you really want to know if they are genuine or not, then they will be able to openly discuss astrology with you.
It’s a tough question really, as I look at astrologers (real ones) as philosophers, rather than prophets or predictive mediums. If they only seem t have one way of emphasising the chart, then they are probably not that well informed, or if they constantly talk generally, non-specifically, make lists and just list the movements of the aspects, then I am always wary of them.
I like to have a little transparency with astrologers, I want to know what they have read, where they get their ideas from and if they are Platonists or not. Those who hype people up with doomsday predictions and claim to have medical knowledge from astrology are to be avoided. Cult like astrologers are usually noticeable as they take it too seriously, an astrologer should be fun and not full of morality, they should be humble and intelligent, eager to read and to discuss astrology.
Astrologers that get people together to defend their territory on the web are fake as hell, those who are caught out defending themselves are usually fakers.
The only way we can judge them is with our own knowledge of astrology, if you don’t want to be conned, then read some astrological literature.
I have made a few tutorials online that are totally free and they contain the most information about readings that I know of. Fakers usually keep things exclusive and don’t discuss how they read a chart.
I think it’s also important to know how they define astrology too, just like when people say they are scientists or philosophers, you have to ask what they mean when they say these things.
Astrologers and high and mighty spiritual people who want to make money will always push the blame onto those practice their theories of what they “ought to do” in order to say that they are not doing it right and so that they can perpetuate the fear of self expression. They get very arrogant.
10. How can I learn more about astrology?
READ! READ! READ! I recommend Joanne Wickenburg and Liz Greene, I also recommend learning more about philosophy, especially Plato and the history of astrology and Hellenic culture.
I think it’s also important to take the opposing view and ask what the problems are in astrology, if it isn’t true on assumption, what would the implications be?
Astrology is ostensive definition, you use it to point out an example, you just have to have a wealth of knowledge to point to. You can learn the general processes of astrology to place your ideas onto it and then you have a kind of leap of faith with it and let your intuition loose.
Ok, I am going to wrap up here, any questions, please feel free to ask. 🙂
Amendment : What are the principles of 13 sign astrology?
Western tropical astrology has long been detached from the constellations eponymous of the signs, due to the axial precession of the equinoxes over the centuries since the introduction of the zodiac by the Chaldeans. By contrast, in sidereal astrology the astrological signs remain attached to the constellations, while the vernal equinox has moved away from Aries over time. Sidereal astrology has traditionally only been practised in Indian Jyotisha, but it has been introduced in western astrology by Cyril Fagan in 1944. A small minority of western astrologers have since followed Fagan and used a sidereal system as in Indian tradition. – Therefore 13 sign astrology is calculated using sidereal time, which is used by telescopes to judge their position using the fixed stars while earth rotates along its orbit, this varies as the earth orbits wider and wider. The 13 signs are along the ecliptic and using the sidereal method, we get 13 signs of the zodiac. I also looked into Babylonian astrology that used the orbit of the moon (13 orbits per year) which was used to calculated the months. I personally prefer to use 12 sign astrology, but many say they don’t match the description of Sagittarius and feel more like Ophiuchus.
If we were to be more materialistic and we view the constellations as having any effect, then I suppose 13 sign astrology fits the bill, but this is still very Platonic and idealist to me. We can use a vast number of different measurements to determine the principles of astrology, it just depends on the context. Draconic charts are created to have more emphasis on te nodes, but they are not an accurate measurement of the sky and tropic.25/04/2017 at 22:32 #18580Origen or someone ended up making a miscalculation which led to a gradual shifting away of the old connections, constellations, and stars, so that modern Western Astrology would be unrecognizable or deemed completely baseless as compared to the Ancient Astrology which is still available to people.
In any case, the idea can be harmful or beneficial depending on how one uses it, and most people, possibly in the past as well used it to condemn people and accuse people of things. Why? Because humans seem to be petty little monsters for the most part.
So today astrology is used as an excuse to say “Oh he was a Scorpio and you know what that means!” Even though the person was not really a Scorpio according to Ancient Astrology at all.
The best way to take astrology is to go back to the original themes and correspondences and ideas which were meant to encompass great deal of themeatic information regarding the human experience and the divine. Taking Astrology as unrelated stars imposing upon people things and confirmation bias to verify it happening then and not every other time as well is just of the least use and the most restrictive, though the truly most wasteful practice woyld be to disregard its themes altogether and take it all for granted.
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