[atreestump]

Solitude is an important philosophical inquiry. Friedrich Nietzsche sees it as the ascetic ideal of the philosopher, Plato sees Odyessus as the ideal of the philosopher, as someone who wants to escape and be alone and face challenges that will lead them to knowing oneself.

Solitude can become an excess, reclusive being can be bad, but in some instances it is the only possible way to grow and so solitude is a neccessary practice for the formation of the subject, to become an individual.

The main reason is because of what Nietzsche calls ‘the herd’, the general collective of people in society who has laws, norms and customs that offer certainties, familiarity and ethics that seem like duty, or utility – the greatest good for the greatest possible number. This falls apart however whenever someone steps outside of these norms, laws and customs. Let’s not draw a distinction between laws and norms here, as some norms can work like laws if they are accepted by enough people.

Sometimes when these norms (unwritten rules that are implicit, enforced by unofficial agents) are violated, it is because of say, stealing, a person may hide from others because they know they will be caught and punished. There are other times however, where we can be ‘caught’ and ‘punished’ because we want to wear clothes that don’t fit ‘the norm’, a man wears what a woman is ‘supposed’ to wear, or we have political views that don’t correspond with the conventions of the society we are in.

We become excluded, yet at the same time included (although the better term is enclosed). We can’t be a part of the group until we stop doing what we are doing and if we don’t stop, force will be applied to ‘correct’ the differences that are considered abnormal.

The only way one can grow in these situations, is to run away, to escape and pursue what it is you want, but when we desire in this way, we actually reject, exclude and reject (abject) the part of ourselves that is part of that norm.

Sometimes we flee from persecution, but feel guilt and shame for leaving others behind. We may be seen as ‘snob’ for not putting up with what everyone else seems to think is their duty.

It’s like living in a parallel universe when this happens, we feel alienated  and it doesn’t matter what you try to do to come back and carry on with your life with other people, you are shunned. When you try to ask for reasons, you get knee-jerk reactions that are not even conscious to those explaining the reasons. Norms and customs are so deeply embedded sometimes that we don’t even recognise when we are enforcing them as they seem ‘normal’. Why would you question what is ‘normal’, after all?

Those who experience this exclusion and enclosure have a unique understanding of social conditioning and know there are steps one can take, as long as they overcome fear, that can free a person from these norms – that on a microcosmic scale, we enclose and confine ourselves, we self-police and this then extends into the macrocosm of society.

Solitude gives us space, a void, an emptiness, in which to expand who we are and it is an important meditative practice to have alone time in order to re-group and recover.

Most people suffer because they think they must be around other people all the time, that you are ill if you spend time alone, they never stop and think, an interesting term here is alexithymia – the equivalent of a shark that stops swimming and drowns.

I find solitude a very interesting subject, as you start to define boundaries between self and other, inclusion and exclusion, force, policing and the eventual return to the community. Solitude rejects authority and is a seeking practice.

[notathoughtgiven]

Well this is a thread that could go on for a while, because to me solitude can take many forums.  One doesn’t necessarily have to be physical alone to achieve solitude.  But mental solitude is good.

For me human beings tend to group together around a common thing.  That we tend to seek out people like ourselves.  Which is good to a point because their is understanding between like minded people and safety in numbers.  The only problem is that we tend to stay with that group.  We like the company of people like us.  But it leads to stagnation.

For one thing we are not challenged at all.  If the people in our group are like us then more often than not they will agree with us.  If there is agreement all the time there is no reason to examine our ideals and in the process learn and grow as individual.  We just stay same all old thing.

But the other bad thing about being around people like ourselves is that we start seeing the universe in polarized manner.  We don’t have anyone or anything to contradict our view so we start believing our view is the right one.  Even to the point of thinking that anyone that thinks different is wrong and should be “corrected” to see the same way as the group.

So we need solitude to grow and balance ourselves.  That doesn’t necessarily mean we are alone in the physical but maybe more in the mental sense.  To go out and be a part of a group that is not like us.  To stand alone in that group to the challenges and views the group may have.  So that we can have a different perspective that will allow us to grow and learn from those challenges and views.  But also have a more encompassing view of the universe because we take in that groups view and merge it with our own.

But we do need to be part of the group that is like us.  We can only take so much in the way challenges and different points of view that we start doubt our own self.  That we need the company of people like us to show us we are not alone and if anything a rest from the challenges.  To get our mental strength back.

I think the problem is that most people choose the company almost exclusively.  Some because of fear of what is outside the group.  But also because we are human beings and have a tendency to be lazy.  That we have the desire to least amount of work mentally and physically.  So being in the group is being lazy because we don’t have to work at defending our ideas and views.

So I think for the individual to grow and keep growing they need to find the balance between the solitude and the company.  The balance that works best for them.

[atreestump]

For me human beings tend to group together around a common thing. That we tend to seek out people like ourselves. Which is good to a point because their is understanding between like minded people and safety in numbers. The only problem is that we tend to stay with that group. We like the company of people like us. But it leads to stagnation.

This is what I mean by the herd instinct, another term is Chameleon Effect in psychology, more specifically, Developmental Psychology.

For one thing we are not challenged at all. If the people in our group are like us then more often than not they will agree with us. If there is agreement all the time there is no reason to examine our ideals and in the process learn and grow as individual. We just stay same all old thing.

There are times when we could say we are in a band or pack, rather than a herd. Packs and bands allow for more indviduality, but can essentially turn into herds once the heirarchy becomes fixed.

So we need solitude to grow and balance ourselves. That doesn’t necessarily mean we are alone in the physical but maybe more in the mental sense. To go out and be a part of a group that is not like us. To stand alone in that group to the challenges and views the group may have. So that we can have a different perspective that will allow us to grow and learn from those challenges and views. But also have a more encompassing view of the universe because we take in that groups view and merge it with our own.

The herd, so to speak, never face challenges and so can’t relate to what is ‘outside of the cave’ to bring this to a Platonist turn.

[notathoughtgiven]

There are times when we could say we are in a band or pack, rather than a herd. Packs and bands allow for more indviduality, but can essentially turn into herds once the heirarchy becomes fixed.

Which is something I have seen plenty of times. People are united by a common goal or aspect so they form a pack. But at some point a strong leader or way of thinking starts to dominate and the pack becomes a herd. They end up being the thing they detested in the first place.

[atreestump]

Anyone have any more thoughts on this? We briefly revisited this topic in the capitalist society thread.

[kFoyauextlH]

Wow this is great fun and almost swam along to some of the areas I had wished articles for at some point.

I experienced solitude just moments ago when I had typed something up but responses are not instantaneous or quick or at all really and then it dawns on me. How killing is an expression or an attempt to manifest or make visible what is already the feeling or state, total aloneness. The killer wants to prove the world is empty after all, and if they were to achieve a killing of all, they would no longer be a killer, or if they sped things up and killed their self, they wouldn’t be a killer of anyone else either, but would still be utterly alone.

That isn’t what we want really. It feels terrible to say something and hear nothing back, even in person or on a phone or wherever.

Solitude is an ever-present reality which we try to forget.

On the mountain, the hermit is happy because he has no troubles caused by man, but if he had something to say or ask for or wanted something he didn’t know how to provide to himself he might become troubled.

He can talk to himself of course, and the ghosts of his mind, the possibilities he can conjure, and can even forget for a while that it is just him, and let his mind run unconsciously as in a dream based on whatever may come to him.

In returning to the people, he may find he has fallen out of line with the trends and will need to quickly adapt if he is to more comfortably survive, though he needn’t be the best at Today, but just good enough at it to get the dairy products he desires.

The things he knows or the knowledge from the mountain can scarcely be communicated to the empty eyes of those level minds of the plateau or those complex minds of the city. Their minds only mimick their homes, and the hermit’s mind is home only upon that mountain, alone.

Then he wakes up, finding he had not indeed descended except by a dream, and thus has no dairy products, let alone food, and food is the stuff of life.

He is faced with a choice. To go where there is food or to die.

Food means things to ingest in all senses, things to think about, things to eat, things to take in and become polluted by, utterly polluted by.

Here, near the sky, there are only a few things to think about and not much to eat with any of the holes, and if a man is anything, a man is series of holes.

He tries to live on dust, breeze, and a few colors, but he is only becoming weaker.

Soon he won’t even remember the few words that he does like blue and cold, soon it will be black only and then what?

He has to run down the mountain, even stumble down it and roll down it, and hungry ravish the world below. Barely anything seems to have any flavor, and then he wakes up again, it was a nightmare and he was eating dirt. He really must be starving and going mad, and he really must get off this God forsaken God damned Mountain!

In sickness one finds the truth beyond other truths. You must do what you must and you will do anything for another breath of air or a ticket out of hell.

You are not noble or good or wise or kind or worthy, you are empty and starving and hungry and all you live for is thirst and ingestion which all results in defecation which is all you produce.

So? What is all the fuss about? Oh man on the mountain! Did you think you were high? Brought low by hunger. Did you think you were low? Running higher to escape pain.

Pain is all there is to it. Pain from the day you were born unwillingly to the day you die unwillingly. Whether you embrace it or disgrace it, it matters little, you will suffer, in proportion to crimes you could have never comitted, and you will be an accomplice to them too, killer, masher, eater, sh*tter.

Can you escape us ever? Is there anything other than perpetual terror?

Life is the answer to that question, all life, which only says No.

Now die! Again and again! You never had a chance, and look how my forgiveness feels like Nothing, when all you can know is Pain.

Lord, I have stood on the mountain to see your face, I will eat like a dog, live like a prince, fight like a thief, and fear like a King.

Your Way is the Only Way in all the Worlds.
[hr]
Everyone on this website so far who contributes can be allotted a place on a spectrum. My service is to provide genuine mystical content and I am way over on one side of the spectrum with my content.
[hr]
Genuine mystical content does not come from what others have said first, but from an achey breaky heart.
[hr]
It can be confirmed as valid through many methods of verification or affirmation though.

People can then even find songs which seem to unintentionally, in the likely case of the authors, verify it.

Such as this:

 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vflvKljxPas

All I do is type random key words and then find things like this which can be applied here.
[hr]

[hr]

Look at it the way I mean it to be looked at, seriously, meditatively, hyper-consciously.
[hr]

Do you also C the Worm?
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[Socrates]

This is hilarious 

https://youtu.be/k6M5FfHsfa0

[Author]

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