[kFoyauextlH]

If death is defined as non-experience, the cessation of all senses or all awareness, it can not be experienced in any way for the one said to be dead.

If you die, it would appear simply as a dreamless sleep. No matter how many aeons pass, or phases of probability, you can know nothing of it, until some moment is hit where you are awake again or receiving information.

It isn’t true death that is frightening, because there is literally nothing to it, it is waking up again which is frightening, and practically guaranteed.

You practice every day with your sleeping. The dead are dead to you, but know nothing of death, and from their perspective, they, like you, only ever wake up, no matter what is said or done in between.

You will never experience death, you can only ever experience life, which is experiencing anything.

Topic

[kFoyauextlH]

Haha they were so scared, as I would be, they leaped straight out of their skins like a cartoon.

Another weird thing I read about NDEs is they did a study looking for Muslims having them like in the Earthquakes and went through numerous resuscitations and found pretty much that for whatever reasons Muslims don’t even have these experiences while both Western and possibly Far Eastern people do. Muslims apparently are not granted the impression of having detachable consciousness lol. So that really made it seem like some cultural expectation mechanism thing.
[hr]
https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc461694/m2/1/high_res_d/28-2%206%20Art%2008%20Kreps.pdf

They seem to be so rare compared to Western ones where Western people are jumping out of their bodies right left and center

[atreestump]

According to Heidegger, the question of the meaning of Being, and thus Being as such, has been forgotten by ‘the tradition’ (roughly, Western philosophy from Plato onwards). Heidegger means by this that the history of Western thought has failed to heed the ontological difference, and so has articulated Being precisely as a kind of ultimate being, as evidenced by a series of namings of Being, for example as idea, energeia, substance, monad or will to power. In this way Being as such has been forgotten. So Heidegger sets himself the task of recovering the question of the meaning of Being. In this context he draws two distinctions between different kinds of inquiry. The first, which is just another way of expressing the ontological difference, is between the ontical and the ontological, where the former is concerned with facts about entities and the latter is concerned with the meaning of Being, with how entities are intelligible as entities. Using this technical language, we can put the point about the forgetting of Being as such by saying that the history of Western thought is characterized by an ‘onticization’ of Being (by the practice of treating Being as a being). However, as Heidegger explains, here in the words of Kant and the Problem of Metaphysics, “an ontic knowledge can never alone direct itself ‘to’ the objects, because without the ontological… it can have no possible Whereto” (translation taken from Overgaard 2002, p.76, note 7). The second distinction between different kinds of inquiry, drawn within the category of the ontological, is between regional ontology and fundamental ontology, where the former is concerned with the ontologies of particular domains, say biology or banking, and the latter is concerned with the a priori, transcendental conditions that make possible particular modes of Being (i.e., particular regional ontologies). For Heidegger, the ontical presupposes the regional-ontological, which in turn presupposes the fundamental-ontological.

[Socrates]

Yeah cause the body was still alive I guess or was alive again so people can claim the brain or something was still secretly working or something.

Regardlesd though I believe whatever we are sincerely told about experiences in their apparent details of the experience and that the experience happened as described.

For sure. I just read an interesting thing about how mountaineers have NDE’s when thry believe they are about to fall from a great height.

Clearly, there is no one medical or physiological cause; the experiences occur for persons in a great variety of medical conditions. An interesting counterexample to explanations in terms of the “dying brain” is found in the NDEs experienced by mountain climbers in the midst of what they expected to be fatal falls (Heim 1892); it is hardly credible that these experiences can be reduced to either drugs or oxygen deprivation.

[kFoyauextlH]

Yeah cause the body was still alive I guess or was alive again so people can claim the brain or something was still secretly working or something.

Regardlesd though I believe whatever we are sincerely told about experiences in their apparent details of the experience and that the experience happened as described.

[Socrates]

Please explain furrher, this is great. I agree too. How do we get beyond these limitations, what is the distinction being made with Being and Experience?

lol – that’s what I am trying to figure out by reading Heidegger. That’s for another thread I am sure.

@”Arkilogos” NDE’s are certainly an interesting aspect of experience, it provides some evidence for survival after death, but it is not conclusive.

[kFoyauextlH]

Yes, I would like to hear all about it, I read so much literature about near death and put of body experiences, it is one of my central areas of interest.

I had a dream that there was a character called Freud who accampanied another similar armored combat anime character. Freud wore glasses and smoked cigarettes. The excited character insisted we are all zombies, and I asked if Freud was always accompanying zombies and was the origin of these ideas regarding the undead being popularized. I then asked what of God? To which Freud responded God is therapy.

Earlier in another dream it said the purpose of evil is that you fight it you fools!

[atreestump]

Speak speaking from a near death experience in which I had the choice to either return to my body or leave the earth completely, our awareness is not dependent on this physical body… the body is more like a veil or shroud around our total awareness.

I perceive us as mummified in matter. And when this shroud wears away and falls off, we resurrect.

life is not Life and death is not Death.
[hr]
The wise serpent sheds many skins before it “dies”

Please share this experience in the religion and spirituality section!

[kFoyauextlH]

Please explain furrher, this is great. I agree too. How do we get beyond these limitations, what is the distinction being made with Being and Experience?

[Socrates]

Then inquiry starting from experience has too many limitations to be of use, we should look at Being instead.

[kFoyauextlH]

I only know experience, so long as there is experience, that is all I know of me, no matter an associated visible body or lack of one or some other form, at the same time though I agree that most people believe we are a body rather than just an all inclusive screen of experience which only suggests the existence of certain systems or bodies.

[Socrates]

That which percieves is that which is perceived. When the body dies, there is no ‘I’, ‘I’ is performed as a body and as the ‘I’ is constructed beyond the body from without, it is impossible to say truthfully where it is, in fact, we are so deeply embedded in culture and language which determines what we are that soul, or ‘I’ is but an illusion of complexity.

[kFoyauextlH]

Very excellent posts and I love the language, mummified in matter, so cool!

I think a great thought experiment is the one you suggested, keep simulating imagining cutting off body parts and sensory. Its also part of a thought experiment where there is a clone sent to Mars or something an exact duplicate. In all these thought experiments it leads one to at least feel there is something else that is the real “me” since one feels that in the destruction of their original body a duplicate clone wouldn’t cut it or possess the experiencer, the one seeing. For example, without killing the first one, creating a duplicate while one is alive wouldn’t be me, the thing seeing would be cut off from that body.

[Arkilogos]

We are our bodies.

Or are we brains in vats? How would we know?

If I lose a finger or an arm, surely I am still the same “me”. At what point of loss of body do I become not me?

One of the neatest lucid dream experiences I’ve had was learning how to accrete the sensory organs I remember from waking life into the astral environment for greater interaction.

[Socrates]

We are our bodies.

[Arkilogos]

Speak speaking from a near death experience in which I had the choice to either return to my body or leave the earth completely, our awareness is not dependent on this physical body… the body is more like a veil or shroud around our total awareness.

I perceive us as mummified in matter. And when this shroud wears away and falls off, we resurrect.

life is not Life and death is not Death.
[hr]
The wise serpent sheds many skins before it “dies”

[Author]

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