atreestump

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  • in reply to: Discussion: Theory of Social Justice #18283
    atreestump
    Keymaster

      This post is an address and call for the need of Social Justice. There actually may be no need for Social Justice. That is because Social Justice, in itself, as I define it could be a need felt by people of society. It is a need only insofar as it is how people are affected. If Social Justice exists for a person, then it arises from certain conditions. Let me explain my interpretation of Social Justice. Societies can create laws and customs that they accept, but Social Justice is something which may be enacted external to the institution or law. General notions of Justice manifest themselves socially too, but Social Justice is purely manifested socially, not as much required to be from specific legal, philosophical or religious hierarchies. The state or society will already be attempting to enforce or create laws to the best of their ability. Social Justice originates from within the intersectionality of the disenfranchised and the observers of the disenfranchised.

      I think that’s the most important definition, I recall saying something similar in my ‘Sargon of Akkad: Empathy, Norms and Customs’ video, as Sargon is unable/unwilling to grasp the relevance of feminism because ‘women have the same legal rights as men under the law’, where exactly this is in my guess, is in the western developed world, which means he is excluding the problems in Muslim countries. Norms are unwritten laws and so the only way to combat them if they are perceived as wrongful, is through resistance outside of government agency, social awareness, or direct confrontation etc.

      The feeling isn’t pity or resentment. Closely related to Social Justice is the notion of Reparative Justice, which is similar to what I will suggest that Social Justice is. However, Social Justice does not necessitate a change in the distribution of wealth or correcting the laws. Material change may be a result of Social Justice, but that is not the end of Social Justice. What I define as Social Justice’s end is to nurture those who are not nurtured by society.

      Indeed, just buying a loaf of bread for a homeless person is a good start, or lending an ear where there is non.

      This is a more abstract definition than a materialist or concrete description. I think that is the difference between Social Justice and Reparative Justice.  This process occurs regardless of whether society is actually corrected in legal terms. It may arise from a material need, but the process in itself is abstract and perhaps sociological.  Social and also purely epistemological ideas are important to consider, in my opinion. This idea separates me from certain “liberals” (general concept). 

      I’m not familiar with Reparative Justice, is that something to do with shaming? I only briefly looked it up on Google. The only other defintion that came to mind is reparations in the form of payments to victims?

      How much social nurturing are people entitled to, if any? Even if I could not justify the social nurturing part of Social Justice, Social Justice still earns its name from emerging in a social way. Social nurturing can be viewed as necessary in capitalist meritocracies. There are concrete ways it may be necessary, but people will seek error with this because there are always many exceptions such as people succeeding without education.

      Yes, the concept of ‘inequality is virtuous’ can be a serious blockade when addressing nurture. People forget that one requires the other to give them a chance.

      More personally, I would say it is the individual need or feeling to nurture those people.

      I think we can remove the term need and feelings by addressing it as a value equation based on how efficient or wasteful an individual is in their expenditure of energy in society. I brought this up in a recent Facebook Live video.

      In many theologies, it is not a feeling. Religious persons may find it as a need.

      I have always found Muslim people to be very compassionate actually.

      Also, I think that Reparative Justice is fantastic but may completely fall apart when applied to social spheres, or bias in general. This is because of the moral values and subjectivity behind these topics, and the discussion of what reparation entails. Independently and not institutionally enacted Reparative Justice also may be Social Justice where it nurtures (not gratifies).

      If I amfollowing this correctly, I think you are saying that this kind of justice is restitutive, this would mainly be financial I think, the main examples that come to mind are payments of compensation from slave owner families to relatives of slaves from the past?

      Treating people the way that you yourself desire to be treated does not seem apply when you have a low self-esteem or do not have the concept that you are entitled to better treatment.

      I think this is where everything becomes blurry where Social Justice is concerned. We don’t want to perpetuate the role of victimhood, or being disadvantaged and so the keyword is ‘privilege’. Of course, those who don’t agree with Social Justice see the whole campaign as losing out on their ‘side’ and tribal in-out groups begin to form as we have seen time and time again. The only thing I could boil it down to was low self-esteem and this definitely gets in the way of Justice.

      Nurturing yourself and others on the other hand can improve the situation when both are lacking. Nurturing a human being is much more straightforward of a process from my experience, rather than enforcing reparations. It may come from my desire to live freely, or desire for others to do so. Finally, on presupposing a positive meaning of the word “nurture”, it comes from the idea of life affirmation. I think that some type of present Love may be required in the first place to even believe in this, of course.

      Agreed.

      in reply to: Should we rename this section? #18256
      atreestump
      Keymaster

        I think that will be a better idea.

        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

        in reply to: Derrida | World as language #18214
        atreestump
        Keymaster

          I have tried to find something on Lacan that would make that make sense to me, here’s a Corey Anton video on it which I will check out again now.

          Would you be able to create a thread on this topic?

          EDIT: From Corey’s explanation I would say the object is part of the Real in the second view, the first would see it as Symbolic.

          in reply to: Ethno-regional bias in Children’s Films. #18247
          atreestump
          Keymaster

            Haha, nice.

            The Shaman character part reminds of my analysis of ‘Rabbit Proof Fence’. The colonialists feared the Aboriginies as they were ‘closer’ to nature. Their cause was to fight to nature through eugenics (the tactic was a kind of artificial selection to ‘breed out’ the dark skin of the Aboriginies). I know they are not Africans, but this ‘witch doktor’ kind of stereotype plays into the idea that Africans and Aboriginies are somehow closer to nature and possess a power that white people don’t, which then leads to a fear of this demographic.

            in reply to: Derrida | World as language #18222
            atreestump
            Keymaster

              Meaning is a relationship between two sorts of things: signs and the kinds of things they mean (intend, express or signify) is the usual view of language, whereas I see being as structured like a language. You can have body language for example, which is movement and stance which can convey a meaning, but it’s self-referential.

              From my understanding of what symbols and language seem to be in general occult-speak, the symbols evoke or invoke from beyond, so the symbols refer to something. My new approach is to view the language and the things as one and the same, as the structure is the same.

              So I would see the first structure as I—–>Language/Symbol—–>Object, so it goes from inside to outside
              I see the second explanation as I and Object structured as symbols and language and it’s all on the outside within language (being).

              in reply to: Derrida | World as language #18213
              atreestump
              Keymaster

                I was thinking of making a thread on astrology with this philosophy, just to play around with it.

                in reply to: American Civil Rights Recap: Leadership #18252
                atreestump
                Keymaster

                  Excellent post. I have been reading bits and pieces here and there all day. The part that I have checked out the most is the part about education. Check out No Child Left Behind: A Neoliberal Repackaging of Social Darwinism Rodolfo Leyva

                  I think I can agree that hashtag activism is not really effective, or not as effective as say, the way in which first-wave feminism was effective. I will be sure to make a post about first-wave, as it is one of the most down-played movements of modern times. Pretty much all social reforms of equality started with that movement.

                  I will add more when I have read the whole thing.

                  in reply to: Ethno-regional bias in Children’s Films. #18245
                  atreestump
                  Keymaster

                    Stereotypes undoubtedly exist in most movies which Hollywood has made.

                    I think you nailed it with the Rowan Atkinson accent. English accents are always evil in the movies. Do I sound evil? ;D

                    Typical examples include Anthony Hopkins in Silence of the Lambs and Kiefer Sutherland in Phone Booth. Hollywood likes to portray English accents as evil geniuses.This obviously plays into the historical factors of English-ness, the British Empire is an ugly ghost that never seems to fade. I also think the American Mind myth of ‘smartness’ has alot to answer for in this regard.

                    in reply to: Derrida | World as language #18212
                    atreestump
                    Keymaster


                      The authors of the book ‘Derrida and Wittgenstein’ seem to be making the claim that Wittgenstein is somehow clearer in making the point about the errors of using language as a representational model (I’m sceptical about this WWF approach to philosophy because I find both equally important and it doesn’t have to be an either / or) I do however appreciate the fact that Derrida is
                      interdisciplinary and engages with a wide variety of thinkers from different fields that intersect and in doing so revitalises their contribution to Western thought and enriches our understanding of their work, whereas Wittgenstein doesn’t particularly do much of this. His work is mainly in response to problems posed by Kant and the  atomistic errors made by the Logical Positivists

                      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                      As we discussed in a PM earlier, interdisciplinary is a good term to use for Derrida.

                      WWF lol, indeed, I have massive amounts of respect for both – can’t wait until we both have a copy of the book.

                      FYI for other members – This is the book we are referring to:

                      Here is a link containing more information : https://www.temple.edu/tempress/titles/985_reg.html

                      As regards atomism, in the opening thread I covered the atomist assumption.

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