[notathoughtgiven]

3. Adverbly

[spoiler]softly[/spoiler]

[notathoughtgiven]

A trans-person or homosexual person will probably find gender roles in society to be constricting, as do women and men, so we are not excluding trans people when we define woman and woman, it just means there is no binary, it’s a spectrum of differences.

I think that is the subtle point that is often missed.  Especially with some trans women who want to be seen as the same as other women.  Well no we are not there are differences.  That is something we should acknowledge not act like we are all the same.  I think that is what Greer is trying to make the point.  To counter that movement that said all women are the same.  I can accept that a women with sex of a female would be different from a woman with a sex of a male.   Even within those divisions there is a spectrum of differences.    

What I previously said was incomplete regarding this subject. While I don’t see sex work as something that should be encouraged, we should not exclude sex workers either. I have known quite a few sex workers personally and they only improved their lives once they were confident enough to ask for help. If a sex worker is raped for example, they will expect to be interrogated so harshly that they may say they were lying to avoid the traumatic experience of the legal process. Ths isn’t something that exclusively affects sex workers however, but the ideal of ‘the chaste woman’ is what perpetuates the myths within rape culture and further increases persecution of victims. They believe it is better to ‘not make a fuss’ as they don’t think any one will believe them. Even if they succeed with their accusations and get their attacker(s) convicted, they may still be rejected by society. Things have changed for the better, but these problems are still prevelant. This stigma and blame is what can lead women into sex work as they don’t value themselves as anything more than a sex object – dropping stigma can and does lead to women coming away from sex work and seeking alternative ways of life that they themselves consider worthy of their time and energy.

If a woman wants to be a sex worker because of a desire to do so, for sexual preference and not because of abusive relationships, there is no problem for me there either personally, I am tolertant toward the issue, that is to say, I am apathetic towards it. It doesn’t affect me in the slightest, so why should I care so much about what someon does with their body? Things are just not black and white.

The main reason I see it as a good thing is like you say, to remove stigma. It is an important part of tackling rape culture and I do advocate self determination. I think a thread on whether or not rights are a good idea or not should be opened, as you can give rights, but you can also take them away and this brings the entirety of the state into question.

One of my very close friends was a sex worker.  She did it to earn a living like any other job.  She has nor regrets about doing it.  But what does bother her is how people react to her when they find out she was a sex worker.  How she will be seen professionally now that she is going to college and pursuing her dream.  It is like this big elephant that obscures people’s view of her as a person.  That she is no longer a person anymore but a sex worker.  That somehow she changes as a person the minute find that out about her.  When she hasn’t changed at all, just people’s perception of her has changed because of the stigma attached to being a sex worker.

Much in the same way that when people find out that I am transgender and identify as being a woman then I have somehow changed by knowing that information about me.  How some people will treat me different like I have changed by knowing that information.  Usually not in a good way.

When it feels that you have to hide some aspect of yourself to feel safe then it is repressive.  Just like my friend I want people to treat me the same regardless if they know me as a transgender or not.  That would be liberating because I no longer have to be careful about what information about me I reveal to other people.  I can just be myself.

I think what people need to realize is what they know about a person doesn’t change who they are.  Just like you are the same person regardless of what I know about you.  That I should treat you the same regardless of what I know about you.  That can be a hard thing to do when there is stigmas attached to certain things that a person could be in life.

I don’t know if I am coming across the right way.  This is one of those things that could be spun off into different threads talking about different ideas that come up with it.  But I think it could be summed by saying things are not black or white, but a whole spectrum of grays.   That can be hard to tell the difference between the shades.

[notathoughtgiven]

I would not even consider Germaine Greer a TERF by any stretch of the imagination. In fact I have a lot of respect for her as a person. From what I have read of her works, she does not exclude or put down transgender women just that she doesn’t see them as women. Which is fair enough. She can have her opinion and I have mine. As long as we respect each others view then that is all that matters.

I think she is right in that I do not experience womanhood the same way biologically. That is a given. But that doesn’t mean I am not a woman, just experience it in a different way.

To me a TERF is a feminist that not only doesn’t see transgender women as women, but goes out of their way to bully, harass and put down transgender women. To convince by any means fair or foul that their view of themselves is wrong and should be excluded.

Well as far as sex work being liberating of women’s and men’s rights. It is more about being treated equally regardless if a person is or was a sex worker. That it liberates rights of the person by seeing it as a choice like any other line of work. That just because someone was or is a sex worker doesn’t mean anything more than that was their line of work. If it is seen that way then it is a choice and liberates the person to be who they are and not to hide or be ashamed that they where a sex worker.

[notathoughtgiven]

I suppose it should be ‘Relent! Push hungrily on that church!’

It does get interesting what comes together at the end 😀   Now I wonder what meaning I should take from that sentence.

Same structure again?

1. Command

[spoiler]Push[/spoiler]

[notathoughtgiven]

This looks like a lot of fun.  

3. adverbly

[spoiler]hungrily[/spoiler]

[notathoughtgiven]

It is one of those things that sounds easy but when you try to define it, then I have a headache.

I would say philosophy is the study of why we exist. What is our purpose in life. How we govern ourselves in our life through ethics. That by studying philosophy we gain a better understanding of our place in the universe and therefore can live a happier life.

Yeah I know kind of fuzzy there, but I thought I would try to define it 🙂

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