[Rubsy]

We can distinguish between primary and secondary qualities if that helps ?  primary qualties are fundamental to that object belonging to a certain category, secondary are not necessary qualities. Primary qualities are usually agreed upon by definition. For example all bachelors are unmarried. Or all tables have surfaces to put things on. Secondary qualities may be things like colour,  they are particular to that object and not always the same to all tables or bachelors etc.

[Rubsy]

Nobody is monolithic – we should not view philosophy as a boxing match after all. Contradictions, when put together synthetically can produce a picture that is ambigious and uncertain, but there is a clarity of its appearance. 

Truth is a religious concept and constants are not fixed. Kant’s ‘thing in itself’, is consciousness, philosophy has always been about consciousness and so psychology is a necessary language for philosophy.

“Kamts thing in itself is consciosness”
I don’t think it is, it is the thing as it is devoid of interpretation, it is something we cannot know but have to presuppose it’s exsistance, like truth, or free will for example, whether it exists or not, it is necessary to believe in it’s existance to experience/ investigate it.
[hr]
This makes consciousness a central issue/problem, how can we transcend our consciousness to know how the world creally is? This is why Kant is a transcendental idealist, he postulates that there are things that come aproiri , before experience, like things in themselves, that it is necessary for our experience to think they exist independently, thusctranscending idealism.

[Rubsy]

Okay I would like to describe my new found revived interest in Shakespeare. So after watching a few documentaries on Elizabeth the first, coming to it with this ideal that she was the first intellectual monarch misunderstood but determined, the normal potrayl given in the films. She had the body of a woman but the heart of a man etc, she sacraficed her normal womanhood for her country etc etc. I thought wow Elizabeth is a great feminist icon.
I looked up some books on her reign and found they were quite disparaging. I thought how could they be so about this Great Queen that even Thatcher tried to emulate. I of course on the youtube search engine was linked to Shakespeare.  I found his life and times documentary from thee BBC to be a great eye opener about the life for ordinary folk in this time. What was shocking was the parallels with this time, ie leading to a police state under Lord Cecil’s control. Even the Great Marlowe playright of Dr Faustus was coopted into being a spy for Elizabeth and England. This was a time where Catholic art in churches eere confiscated by the Crown and muriels were white washed , pagan festivals banned. The coming together and the meeting places were taken away in the name of being pure. Common lands were take away in Warickshire, protesters were just mowed down, ketts rebellion 1601 and 1549. The executioners built on their skills for keeping people alive whilst they ripped their guts out and chopped their limbs off.  Imagine what it was like coming from a stable peasant society, with all the art and comunity places taken away, white washed and forced into the cities to trade in illegal wool, with every second person being a spy for the Crown.
[hr]

[Rubsy]

@”kFoyauextlH” 
If we move to the boat I think we may get a Dutch oven My dad use to make them to put on the stove. You can use them for everything. Put hot coals in the lid, bake and fry. One pot fits all.

[Rubsy]

As to my Philosophy, I would say there is more to this world then science describes. There are such things as ghost or spirits, as I have co witnessed them, so I know I was not hulicinating. However there are many ways to deceived and misinformed. Also these events are infrequent and not the bulk of life as I know it. Life is mysterious as it is, unpicking the wealth of knowledge that we have accumulated is over whelming, so for me I think I have to start with the basics, like the mind informs the body and the body informs the mind. We should take care of these things and respect them in others. We don’t need as much stuff as we have and we can learn things in many different ways, music, art. I know how the herd works to keep people in their place. I know that humans thirst for stability and try to avoid suffering. For me life is a balancing act between all these things and is sometimes overwhelming. As to Philosophy,  I think it often leads nowhere but is interesting in the way it shows up certain habitual ways of thinking. For example Nietzsche showed me how Christian my behavior was, in some regards like ought and owe morality where we keep a list of deeds as if it’s a bank account. I suppose that leads me to the Philosophy of the absurd, Camus, why not suicide, because we find the absurd itself a reason to go on, the fact we go on is absurd.I find people are toughest on their own kind, policing and judging their friends more than their enemies. As to all in one, what difference does it make ?

[Rubsy]

I also think Persian culture was distinct from Arab culture, for example the law of non representation was not strictly obeyed when they wove flowers and animal forms into their carpets.  The fact that they had a long tradition of art and craft made it difficult to adhere to the strictness of Islam in this regard.

[Rubsy]

If we are talking of free will and determinism, as the Islamic God being totally deterministic , I find the inate question interesting and how we have evolved this in to a concept of the individual. It is interesting that the story of Robinson Crusoe about a man who is stranded on an Island creates his own economy and hierachy similar to one that  is already accepted. That it was down to what is practical through experience and therefore the correct model.  Perhaps this stems from a corrupting Persian story Hayys Ibn Yaqdhan.

[Rubsy]

Where would your general interest in Islam and Medievalism lye ? I must admit that I only have a general idea of the transmission of thought from one culture to another through the crusades. That Plato was rediscovered in this way.
The bearded pots of the Medieval pot documentary maybe a representation of Muslims. The Christian face was clean shaven. Or they may be a representation of wild men. The history of what it meant to pull your beard is lost. Although this is a small detail I found it interesting to try to get into the Medieval mind. What did the Christians think of the Muslims and vise versa ? I find it telling how they judged each other superficially. Muslims that pretended to be Christians shaved their faces and put slaughtered  pigs on the decks of their ships in the Medieval period.  The terrorist in 911 went to the bar and drank liquor to avoid suspicion.

[Rubsy]

Science be praised.

[Rubsy]

@”Serpius”
@”kFoyauextlH” 
I would like to interject on your lively discussion of what to do with the people so to speak. I often have problems with people and find it very hard to be told what I should and shouldn’t do. The imperative is my problem. I suppose that I have developed a value system where I think that the best possible society would have  the most freedom. There I come to an internal conflict where I judge people for being too judgmental.  I am often disappointed by people’s intolerance, whereas I have a deep belief that people need space to develop their own values. As slavery is intolerable for me I would not wish it on anyone else.
However in this day and age slavery still exists in it’s raw state, there is a slave market in Syria where refugees from the Sudan are traded and ransomed and killed if they can not extract enough value from them.  People are judged as to what value can be extracted from them. There is slavery built into the prison system. For example Trump’s refugee sub contracted prisons are only paying their prisoners a dollar a day for their labour and delaying their deportation by losing their papers in order to get more slave labour. This is all very sad and I can only say I never want to be on the wrong end of justice. That that is a fear most of us carry, but it makes hypocrites of us all, as we have to play the game to a point. If you want to step outside the box, the imperative is not to get caught. For me there is no such thing as justice in society, but if you can grab enough time and space you may be able to work on creating your own values or sense of justice and you have to take a chance in some way or other, it’s unavoidable.

[Rubsy]

I would agree on the valuing side of things. I think some of the labels in the museum describe pottery being overlooked because of it’s low intrinsic value. I went to the British museum the day before and they used to have a large collection 2 galleries or so of medieval English  pots and tiles. They have diminished this collection and put just a few pots next to the Great Sutton Hoo treasure gold and garnets from the amazing artisans of the Anglo Saxons. They had the pots in really obscure places neglecting their 3d aspects and it was quite dark. This why I went to the Museum of London the day after thinking they have moved some of their collection. Overall there seems to be a lot less Medieval pots on display, I think my next step is the Geffrye Museum before it closes for refurbishment soon.
It was quite funny listening to the dad’s trying to educate their brood on the failings of Medieval pottery, that “they hadn’t learnt to get it right yet”, an American dad in the British Museum , or “they hadn’t learnt about perspective and proportion” , a South African dad in the Museum of London. It went assumed that they were right , that the norm we have now is the correct view and therefore the Medieval expression in art was wrong.

[Rubsy]

Wow, thanks that’s the first comment I have had and it’s really to the point. I have been looking into a lot the history of the cross over from the medieval times to the enlightenment  or the premodern time. As a Potter I wanted it to be a resource for those that want to recreate these pots but can’t get to see them. Recreating them really can bring about more of a tactile understanding of the times.

[Rubsy]

Maybe only time will tell. I think post modernism is essentially a critique of what is called modernism and they are saying that modernism is too restrictive in some sense. Modernism has a belief in progress for example, a simple belief that we are improving, or that we should be improving ourselves/society. Modernism can ride roughshod over people and communities in the name of progress, ignoring their needs and gifts to society. I would not say it’s nihilistic to argue we should take differences more into account. That it is not anti foundational as it tries to promote understanding, imagination and is anti domination.

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[Rubsy]

[spoiler] is a [/spoiler]

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[Rubsy]

[spoiler] yellow [/spoiler]

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